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| Posted by aixrad play-chess-online.com 9/05/2008 05:18:31 Play online chess |  Subject: Checkmate or notMessage: I recently played with black this game  game with pianofred.
In this Position I generated the conditional move 20 Rf2 Re1+ ... with threefold repetition to save the draw because I had less material. pianofred mean I maybe could checkmate him forces but we both don't know how. Is this a forced checkmate position? Was it right to save the draw with threefold repetition? Greetings Ralf | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by beefturnmail play-chess-online.com 9/05/2008 05:49:19 Play online chess | Message: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Posted by aixrad play-chess-online.com 9/05/2008 06:36:33 Play online chess | Message: Then I wa very stupd and blind at that moment ——— Chess piece value — When I teach a class of beginning players, it is customary to explain the “value” of the chess pieces. If both sides exchange pieces, knowing their approximate value will help explain who gets the better deal. Some things are pretty obvious, like if I capture a queen and my opponent captures a bishop, we both know who is doing better. But some things are not so clear. I try to make analogies when I teach. Some hit the mark, and some confuse the student even more! But before I try to confuse my readers, let us look at standard values: Queen = 9, Rook = 5, Bishop = 3, Knight = 3, Pawn = 1. The king does not have a capture value, since we do not capture the king. (You can’t say, “I captured his knight and two pawns for... Posted by chessnovice | play-chess-online.com 9/05/2008 21:39:08 Play online chess put a positive spin on itMessage: ——— Chess: Karpov turns the screw — Karpov-Smyslov, Moscow 1972. White has come out of the opening with a certain spatial advantage. Now he has to find a plan. Warning: you're not looking for a sacrificial combination – this is Karpovian, it's all about subtlety and strategy. RB: I've nominated Karpov's Strategic Wins 1: The Making of a Champion by Tibor Karolyi (Quality Chess) for our book of the year award. It's a year-on-year account of Karpov's career from 1961 to 1985, nicely laid out and well annotated. Karpov's style is positional, unhurried and exceptionally deep. Constantly alert to the counter-stroke, he likes to make small improving moves. Some of Karpov's choices remain, even with the help of a chess computer, mysterious, as ... Posted by ionadowman | play-chess-online.com 9/07/2008 13:55:23 Play online chess Incidentally...Message: Bad luck, Ion ——— Winning in long run requires motivation — Chess is a worthy pursuit for all seasons of life; 6- and 7-year-olds can play a pretty good game. In recent years, chess players in their early teens have become grandmasters. And a 20-year-old, Magnus Carlsen, is the highest-rated chess player in the world. Meanwhile, 82-year-old Viktor Korchnoi is still capable of winning tournaments, though not at the same level as before. When do chess grandmasters reach their peak? The ballpark figure used to be 35. But two chess players in their early 40s — the champion, Viswanathan Anand; and the challenger, Boris Gelfand — will face off for the world title in the summer. Gelfand embraces the age factor. He sees no decline in his ... Posted by wuzzie | play-chess-online.com 9/11/2008 04:13:47 Play online chess not checkmateMessage: ——— Chess: European Players Are Well Paid for Team Play — The difference between the game in the United States and Europe is easy to illustrate by comparing two team competitions currently under way. The European Club Cup, which ends Sunday in Slovenia, features many of the world’s best chess players, among them Boris Gelfand, Peter Svidler, Teimour Radjabov and Ruslan Ponomariov. They have no particular loyalty to their chess clubs. They are playing because they are being paid, often quite well. And the clubs with the deepest pockets, like OSG Baden Baden in Germany and Tomsk-400 in Russia, are the only ones with a legitimate chance to win the chess tournament. Compare that to the setup of the United States Chess League, which just finished its fifth week of ... Posted by lighttotheright | play-chess-online.com 9/11/2008 11:59:11 Play online chess Message: Aixrad, you did well to accept a draw in this position. After wuzzie's 20. Qg4+ Qxg4 21. fxg4...Rxb2 22. Nd2 would have left White with a possible decisive advantage. Although Black would have 2 passed pawns, the vertical isolation would have been difficult to defend. White would have opportunities to open his own passed pawns along the King-side once the black h pawn fell. And don't forget that White would still have an extra piece to fight in this position. Black cannot defend everything under best play. ——— Rule change raises hopes of Vishy Anand meeting Magnus Carlsen — A change to the world chess championship candidates rules has raised hopes that India's Vishy Anand, the holder, will meet Norway's Magnus Carlsen, 20, who tops the chess rankings, in a 2012 or 2013 title match. The 2011 candidates in Kazan was settled by knock-out, where Russia's Alex Grischuk controversially made quick draws in the long classical games to reach the final via blitz tie-breaks. Subsequently, elite chess grandmasters voted for an all-play-all format. APAs were used from 1950 until 1962, when Bobby Fischer claimed that his Soviet rivals had arranged results to minimise the American's chances. The chess tournament was replaced by matches, in which Fischer famously destroyed ... Posted by heinzkat | play-chess-online.com 9/11/2008 12:04:46 Play online chess Message: Should Black play 23. ... Re2, taking the draw because of threefold repetition, or should Black play 23. ... Qxf1#/Rxf1#, taking the win because of checkmate. You cannot say that Black did well to take the draw in this position !?!?!??? Posted by lighttotheright | play-chess-online.com 9/11/2008 12:18:58 Play online chess Message: It depends upon what position you are talking about. That is the danger of talking about this game or any like it. If you analyse a different position, you can get entirely different conclusions. Posted by tugger | play-chess-online.com 9/11/2008 15:27:10 Play online chess Message: For reference, White should have played 20. Qg4+ and he probably wins, forcing the Queens off the board with a pawn advantage (just the one pawn, as b2 is vulnerable to capture from the Rook). Better still would be to develop the Knight as opposed greedily snatching the pawn on move 19. Posted by tugger | play-chess-online.com 9/11/2008 15:33:07 Play online chess Message: The position in the first post is not a win for Black, as it is White to move, and he can save with Qg4+. It is only after White plays Rf2 that it becomes a win for Black. But I would still say that a draw for Black after missing a mate in one can not be considered a good result. Posted by lighttotheright | play-chess-online.com 9/11/2008 22:11:00 Play online chess Message: Then White made a mistake and Black did not take advantage of it. That's compounding mistakes. Both sides clearly intended the draw by repeating the position shown by aixrad on move 20. It did not matter that the repeating sequence was flawed. Neither player could see that flaw. Aixrad asked about the exact position he displayed in the first post. I merely confirmed wuzzie's analysis of that exact position. This game was a draw by repetition not by an accepted draw on move 20. It lasted longer than that (I knew that all along). The presumptive acceptance of a draw on move 20 was what I commented on...not the mistakes made later. The line of play I gave as example proves what I was talking about. To later criticize me for stating something I didn't is ludicrous. No where did I refute any of the previous analysis given by others that show the forced mates. But those forced mates do not materialize until after White's Rf2. Posted by tugger | play-chess-online.com 9/12/2008 08:20:12 Play online chess Message: "Aixrad, you did well to accept a draw in this position." is what i consider ludicrous. it's my opinion that aixrad should be disappointed, not pleased. i don't mean to pan him down, it's intended as constructive critisism. one should never be pleased about missing an easy win. aixrad should be looking to improve his game to the point where he can spot mate in one positions, and that means he should be disappointed when he misses them. this will hopefully drive him forward, trying to ensure he does not feel this disappointment again. i do know what lighttotheright is saying, though. in the position at the very top of this thread, aixrad is worse off positionally and materially. so i understand why he is saying a draw was not bad. perhaps a better way of approaching this problem is to directly answer the questions aixrad asks... "Is this a forced checkmate position?" - Not in this position. "Was it right to save the draw with threefold repetition?" - No, you should've waited to see what White's reply to Re2 was, then analysed the position, instead of putting up conditional moves. Perhaps then you might have found the win. Posted by lighttotheright | play-chess-online.com 9/12/2008 11:15:05 Play online chess Message: But I would like to point out that aizrad is only a 1300 level player. We shouldn't expect a 1600 to 1700 level or greater performance out of him. Is a draw the best result? Of course not. But don't forget that a draw is still a good result regardless. Certainly, it is a lot better than a loss. Posted by tugger | play-chess-online.com 9/13/2008 07:41:06 Play online chess Message: "But I would like to point out that aizrad is only a 1300 level player. We shouldn't expect a 1600 to 1700 level or greater performance out of him. " before i go on, i stress again it's just my opinion, but i really don't think that spotting that mate is 1600+ standard, in fact i would expect a 1300 player to have no trouble winning after Rf2. this is precisely the reason aixrad should be disappointed. if he's not disappointed, then how can he drive himself on to improve? if instead he shrugs his shoulders and says "well, a draw is a good result here", then i don't see him breaking into the 1600+ class. but maybe that's just the way i approach things. i guess he may see things differently. he may be boosted by the fact he didn't lose, and as such have more confidence. but i know i would be disappointed if i missed that. it's ironic really, as during the threefold repetition, both players took it in turns to blunder away a win! |