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| From | Message |
| loreta 3/14/2003 03:50:35 [ report this post ] |
 Subject: Bishop opening? Latvian gambit?Message: Does anyone on this site plays that opening: 1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 f5 Has anybody some feeling about it? |
| soikins 3/14/2003 07:36:52 [ report this post ] | Patriotic feeling Message: It can transfer to Latvian Gambit declined after 3. Nf3. But I don't play it. Have played it couple of times (every Latvian chess player probably has), bet I don't like Gambits. So I'm not an expert, though I have had tough time playing blitz against Latvian Gambit. There are quite a lot of LAtvina Gambit experts here in Latvia. |
| loreta 3/14/2003 07:46:05 [ report this post ] | More Message: Yes, it'd... But I'm more interesting in variations not leading to LG - like 3 Qf3 or 3. Qh5... |
| gunnarsamuelsson 3/14/2003 08:31:37 [ report this post ] | incorrect Message: e4 e5 bc4 f5?? is incorrect due to the fact bxg8, rook x g8 , queen h5 check! with a free pawn and blacks kingside is messed up. The material wont be taken back either. |
| loreta 3/14/2003 08:51:08 [ report this post ] | Message: Gunnar, are you sure to the end of brain of back? :-) 3. Bxg8 Rxg8 4. Qh5 g6 5. Qxh7 Rg7 is not so clear as could be seen... Maybe... The variation has been played by persons with ELO above 2200... Anyway... |
| dorisia 3/14/2003 10:03:11 [ report this post ] | Incorrect2 Message: After 3.Bxg8? Rxg8 4.Qh5+ g6 5.Qxh7 Rg7 White is in trouble, not Black; Black wins back the Pawn with attack. The book continuation is 3.d3! Nf6 4.f4 d6 5.Nf3 fxe4 6.dxe4 Bg4 7.fxe5 Bxf3 8.Qxf3 dxe5 9.Qb3 Qc8 10.Bg5 with a clear White advantage (Jaenisch). |
| loreta 3/14/2003 23:02:15 [ report this post ] | Book recommendation Message: Dorisia.... What book do you have in mind? Could you provide more variations? . Because I thought the best is 3. Qf3 |
| loreta 3/14/2003 23:09:11 [ report this post ] | Book recommendation Message: Dorisia.... What book do you have in mind? Could you provide more variations? . Because I thought the best is 3. Qf3 |
| dorisia 3/15/2003 08:28:11 [ report this post ] | loreta Message: My basic source was the book "Russisch bis Koenigsgambit" by Aleksei Suetin, a Russian work translated into German. It mentions Jaenisch's analysis of 3.d3, and also gives the variation 3.exf5, which gives Black counterplay, and the inferior 3.Bxg8. More variations... I just Googled up the following URL: www.rci.rutgers.edu/~goeller/urusov/bishops/f5.htm It gives a lot of theory about this particular variation, and examines eight different possibilities on White's third move. But 3.Qf3 is not among them; this must be because of 3... Nc6, which in my humble opinion equalises immediately. |
| loreta 3/16/2003 01:34:07 [ report this post ] | Thanx Message: Thanx dorisia You did a nice work! I'll search that Suetin's book. I'd read German as well as German. And link was wonderfull I had gone along that site some time ago but didn't stop on it... . About that move... I think it's playable for black... Some excerpt from site "a line which has not been extensively examined for nearly 100 years" and "it can lead to great complications"... If you are prepared to it and like complex situation it could be for you... --- Now a story hoe I went onto it... I'm playing Latvian gambit sometimes... And when I saw 2.Bc4 I was lighened by thought... Isn't it possible to play 2. ... f5 Short glance showed - in some lines it foes to LG like positions (yhat's good), Queen's moves don't take a harm, 3 Bxg8 seems safe (for black)... ---- I've no any applicable resource under hand so decided ask in the forum... And thanx to dorisia I found answer... :-) |
| gunnarsamuelsson 3/16/2003 07:30:54 [ report this post ] | I was wrong Message: I was definately wrong, I didnt look at the board while giving my thoughts (my bad excuse). Seems white has overextended himself yes! After bishop xg8(?) , exf5 seems playable ?? or does it not? black responds nf6 ..and maybe is still on top since white has given up the center and all soldiers r sleeping ..but it seems playable doesnt it? White has gained some material but for the price of moving same piece twice and given up the center..also the bishop is slightl y better then knight and the bishop was important defencive force on kingside now gone. |
| werwolf 3/16/2003 23:29:31 [ report this post ] | doubtful Message: I realy sorry but i must say that its doubtful because i played that with black and the refutation is 3.d4! ed (the best)4.e5! d5 5.ed Bxd6 and now simple 6.Ne2 (not 6.Nf3 Qe7+ ! ) gives white a large atvantage. 3...Qf6 looks like very doubtful |
| loreta 3/17/2003 00:44:01 [ report this post ] | Message: To werwolf... All that seems OK, but why not 5. ... Qxd6 ? |
| dorisia 3/17/2003 00:52:55 [ report this post ] | Loreta Message: Thanks for the compliment; you are too kind :) I've taken another look at that website and I am beginning to like those gambit variations in the Bishop's game, especially the Urusov. The author of that website analysed these gambit lines for about thirty years, he writes somewhere in an introduction. He certainly has collected more material than can be found in any book. Werwolf: the line 3.d4 (Estrin's suggestion) is certainly a strong one, but I am not sure if White has such a big advantage after 3... exd4 4.e5 d5 5.exd6 Bxd6 6.Ne2; Black has a lot of possibilities here, for instance she could play Nc6, folowed by Qh4 (after White's O-O), Bd7, O-O-O etc. and her development is already completed. I still think Jaenisch's move 3.d3! is the best; after all White is playing a King's Gambit Declined with colors reversed: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 Bc5 3.Nf3 d6. |
| werwolf 3/18/2003 07:59:18 [ report this post ] | Loreta Message: 5..Qd6 is suicide, because black will too far behind in development. I know it from my own opinion. |
| werwolf 3/18/2003 08:20:49 [ report this post ] | dorisia Message: if 6....Nc6 7.0-0 Qh4 then simple 8.f4 Bd7 9.Nxd4 with clear atvantage |
| loreta 3/18/2003 08:44:27 [ report this post ] | Message: 6....Nc6 7.0-0 Qh4 8.f4 And why here not 8. ... Rc5 ? |
| werwolf 3/19/2003 06:08:35 [ report this post ] | loreta Message: Ok but if instead of 8.f4 white will play 8.g3 then after 8.... Qg4 (or white simply takes the pawn on d4) 9.f3 Qg6 10.Nxd4 Bc5 and now simply 11.c3 with better position for white - idea is to move with king on h1 and then put the queen to b3 with pressure on both sides (black has no choise - they'll have to castle queenside) |
| atrifix 3/19/2003 16:18:42 [ report this post ] | IMO Message: The position is equal after 6... Nc6. After 7. 0-0 Qh4 8. f4? White is close to losing, but can hold after 8... Bc5 9. Kh1 Nf6 10. Qe1! Qxe1 11. Rxe1=+. After 8. g3 instead, then 8... Qf6 seems to be best, but after 8... Qg4 9. f3 Qg6 10. Nxd4?! (10. Nf4! should give white an advantage) 10... Nxd4 11. Qxd4 Bxg3! is an immediate draw. |
| werwolf 3/19/2003 22:22:35 [ report this post ] | I blundered Message: Yes I must confess to that my fast analysis was careless. Only yesterday evening looking this line at home, I noticed 10... Nxd4 11. Qxd4 Bxg3! So 10.Nf4 gives white an atvantage? I wont hurry wiht my conclusions and will try to analyse this position more thorough. |
| werwolf 3/19/2003 22:38:24 [ report this post ] | 3.d3 isn't refutation Message: In my opinion 3.d3 can't refute 2...f5. I analysed that line a few years ago and results are following: 3.d3 Nf6 4.Nf3 [ if 4.f4 then, according to Bilguer, 4...d5 5.ed e4 with unclear play] c6! 5.0-0 [if 5.Nxe5 then 5... Qe7 6.Nf7 d5 7.Nxh8 dc 8.0-0 cd 9.cd fe 10.fe Bg4 with unclear position again. On 5.Nc3!? black may be can play Bb4 and black position isn't worse] d5 6.7.Bb3 [7.Bb5+ Bd7 8.Bxd7+ (8.Nc3!? d4 9.Nxd7 Nbxd7 10.Ne2 Bd6 With unclear position) Nxd7 =] e4! 8.de fe 9.Nd4 Nc6 with equal chances. If I made mistakes somewhere then please show me them. |
| soikins 3/22/2003 04:46:47 [ report this post ] | he-he... Message: Great! Latvian Gambit expert from Latvia with his analysis. I'll have to save this. Till the next weekender, werwolf! :))) |
| werwolf 3/23/2003 00:23:11 [ report this post ] | soikins Message: I'm not playing Latvian gambit any more. Atfer I wasn't able to win Mustaps. |
| soikins 3/23/2003 03:30:04 [ report this post ] | You didn't beat him? Message: Damn... Was it a draw? That's too bad... |
| werwolf 3/23/2003 05:07:27 [ report this post ] | Realy miserable Message: That game he played good as others in that tournament - he became stronger. |
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