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| anaxagoras 9/24/2003 15:04:01 [ report this post ] |
 Subject: Draw Please? (kind of funny)Message: board #1046329 I offered a draw somewhere near move 44, but this guy won't quit! He insisted that he could win and forced us to play on. Oh brother... Don't bother to say "on move 57 White/Black could forced the win in 12 moves etc..." because it just doesn't matter anymore. I know there are plenty of mistakes, but this kind of wishful thinking helps me understand human nature in a much more broad way. |
| divine_sun_cat 9/24/2003 15:37:56 [ report this post ] | i agree with him Message: At what stage do you think even material warrants a draw? Why not ask for draw on move one? At move 44 there was plenty of room for error for people at your respective levels. Maybe your opponent wants to improve his endgame, and there isn't always a lot of opportunity to practise it. I think you are being very unreasonable. |
| superblunder 9/24/2003 18:39:23 [ report this post ] | What is the problem? Message: Anaxagoras, you have a forced draw in 2 moves...you take his queen, then he takes your rook, then you queen, he takes with his rook...two bare kings=draw. If he can't see that far ahead..so be it. But for you it is only two more moves which is not so bad. |
| caldazar 9/24/2003 19:12:46 [ report this post ] | Message: Although I haven't deeply analyzed the position after Black's 44th move and my endgame play is not particularly strong to begin with, I feel White does have some genuine winning chances (he has the better rook). Perhaps the position is indeed drawn with best play, but there are plenty of ways for Black to go wrong and rather few losing chances for White, so I'd probably desire to play on in that position as well. |
| anaxagoras 9/24/2003 20:00:10 [ report this post ] | Message: Ok, you all are probably right that I went overboard. My apologies. In all honesty, though, I posted because I just couldn't stop laughing at this position. I find little value in a pawn race vs a well matched opponent that will probably end in a draw, unless I *really* *really* hold a grudge against him and have a vaunted and irrational desire to win at all costs. |
| jeffz_2002 9/24/2003 21:24:23 [ report this post ] | Message: re: vaunted and irrational desire to win at all costs... Is there any other way to play? |
| adrianallen 9/25/2003 00:15:57 [ report this post ] | anaxagoras Message: should resign by the fact he has asked, albeit indirectly, for advice on the game and he has been given it. Im assuming this game is still in progress? |
| dozer 9/25/2003 00:46:48 [ report this post ] | adrianallen.. Message: Please look at the game and you will understand. There is no advice given here considering the position in the game that isn't painfully obvious to anyone who has ever seen a chess piece. Still I would say that players would be wise NOT to share ANY specific analysis regarding on-going games... Kind Regards, Dozer |
| anaxagoras 9/25/2003 09:19:53 [ report this post ] | Message: Oh brother! Some of you are *so serious*. adrianallen, yes, please give me advice on my game in progress. Please advise me on what to do when the only pieces left on the board are the Kings! |
| adrianallen 9/25/2003 10:06:58 [ report this post ] | dozer Message: I did look at the game. I just don't think it is appropriate to talk about a game that has not ended, regardless of whether it is lost, won or drawn. This should be done after the game is completed. If you have a drawn game or a won game, your opponent has the right to carry the game on and hope for a blunder. |
| anaxagoras 9/25/2003 10:57:05 [ report this post ] | Message: Since you believe yourself so righteous, adrianallen... "I just don't think it is appropriate to talk about a game that has not ended, regardless of whether it is lost, won or drawn. This should be done after the game is completed." Why should that be a black and white rule? Why is there necessarily no such thing as an exception to the rule you propose? For example, if my opponent has two Queens and I have nothing save for my naked King, why is it innapropriate to laugh and say "anaxagoras has a snowball's chance in hell"? "If you have a drawn game or a won game, your opponent has the right to carry the game on and hope for a blunder." What is the significance of that right? Does someone overstep that right of mine when they say "anaxagoras has a snowballs chance in hell"? Please explain. |
| chessnovice 9/25/2003 11:00:05 [ report this post ] | ... Message: Comments like "Ohhhhh, you took my Pawn! What's going to happen next?" during the game are bad form. I disagree that you should have to resign the game, as adrianallen suggested, but I hope you might brush up on your chess etiquette. You knew it was going to be a draw, he wanted to see how much further it could go. Why disrespect your opponent like this? |
| anaxagoras 9/25/2003 13:39:27 [ report this post ] | chessnovice Message: You say "he wanted to see how much futher it could go." If you really believe that he didn't already know how far it could go, then it is you who shows him disrespect for taking him to be ignorant when he is not. --------------- This my last comment on this thread: Get a sense of humor, thou sanctimonious puritans! ;-) |
| atrifix 9/25/2003 14:39:31 [ report this post ] | Probably Message: the most amusing thing is that the position on the 44th move is a relatively simple win for White. |
| superblunder 9/25/2003 14:46:27 [ report this post ] | sorry.... Message: for giving direct analysis...it is only two incredibly simple forced moves which ends in the simplest possible way, two bare kings. But it was still inappropiate. I have personnaly played against anaxagoras and this guy can analyze far beyond this ELEMENTARY FORCED DRAW, so I was only pointing out what he already knew and the fact that it is not so bad. But it is true that what I did was technically inappropiate...If Mike takes away my posting privileges as a penalty, I will accept it. But anybody who knows how the pieces move could see the two forced exchanges leading to bare kings, so I think it absolutely wrong for anaxagoras to be penalized, He gained nothing from my post, but I will confess that it was an inappropiate post on a game in progress. |
| dozer 9/26/2003 00:40:05 [ report this post ] | atrifix Message: Now that the game is finished, would you care to elaborate? I'm still quite weak in end games and would be interested to know the correct plan for White... Kind Regards, Dozer |
| pebbles 9/26/2003 05:35:35 [ report this post ] | It looks like a win... it IS a win Message: Like atrifix said, the position was a simple win after the 44th move. 45. gxh4 gxh4 46. Rb1! and Black can resign immediately. The White King will penetrate on c5, defending his b-pawn, and the White Rook will penetrate on the 7th rank via f7 or g7; there is no defense against this plan. [If, for instance, Black King succeeds in or is allowed capturing White's h-pawn, White will in return take the a7-pawn; if then Black tries to promote his h-pawn, this will take him four moves; in that time White will make only a and b pawn moves; finally, after both Rooks give their lives for a pawn, White will only be two moves away from a new Queen, while Black's d-pawn is harmless, since White king is still on c5. It was therefore unethical to propose a draw on the 44th move. |
| dozer 9/26/2003 06:35:20 [ report this post ] | pebbles Message: Thank you, seems like a winning plan! :-) Kind Regards, Dozer |
| atrifix 9/26/2003 12:37:23 [ report this post ] | Well Message: pebbles's line should in all probability lead to a win for white, but IMHO the simplest is just 44. gxh4 gxh4 45. Kc5, when Black cannot penetrate to h3 with his king and the loss of the e-pawn is not so important, so White wins very easily. It is not unethical to propose a draw on the 44th move, but it IS unethical to make repeated draw offers, or to make comments to the opponent like "what's going to happen next?" |
| spurtus 9/26/2003 13:55:04 [ report this post ] | Message: Gentlemanly conduct, is to sit and suffer even if a draw is obvious, been there before!.. your opponent might not realise a draw is 100%, but it is his right to proceed throught the game without indimidation. Who knows, he might even underestimate your endgame technique and is looking for that very small chance, he should be allowed that chance. Recently I was in a situation in the British Championships, where my opponent actually was getting upset that I wouldnt take a draw... ( the usual distracting stares and sighing!) ...hrmmm a bit annoying indeed... although since I went on to win, it made it even more enjoyable....heheheheh! Spurtus. |
| anaxagoras 9/26/2003 14:56:48 [ report this post ] | Message: I'd call my draw offer congnitively inaccurate! But unethical? Now you make me smile that I could have done something so important! |
| aqeel 10/03/2003 02:23:13 [ report this post ] | what about mine? Message: What do you guys say about this game? A draw?? board #931652&r;=980" target="_blank">gameknot.com/chess.pl?board #931652&r;=980 *I dont know how to write board number :( just paste in your browser* |
| cairo 10/03/2003 02:45:49 [ report this post ] | Please - Please Message: Don't ask for any evaluation/advise of ongoing game(s) This is simply very unfair and unsporty like. If you feel your opponent violate the rules etc. Contact the Webmaster directly. Best wishes Cairo |
| aqeel 10/03/2003 04:07:10 [ report this post ] | Cairo Message: No I didnt meant that! It was just that I have placed a lot of effort on that game..I was kinda losing and now I will be atleast happy for a draw . :)-I also offered draw twice; both times declined) My opponent is much more stronger than me! BTW the game mentioned above was funny to me.. A draw by lack of force is rear..Usually you see opponents accepting draws before that.. regards aqeel |
| bartlebie 10/03/2003 16:44:00 [ report this post ] | Dear friend, Message: you are putting a smile on my face once again. The wine was a good one today, so my thoughts aren't as serious then they might be seen here. The question has been raised if it had might been an unethical or let me say in a perhaps better way morally weak or even wron decision, i.e. a bad decision in a moral sense, to offer draw in a position you consider to be drawn, but which is, as we see, not drawn. I'm a bit helpless. Just a thought: Is nearly every draw offer of a player rated lower than about 2400 ELO a sin? I'll give the answer in just a few lines. In the meantime let me think about a possible world, where it is at first an ethical decision to offer a draw in a game of chess and second where something as an draw offer could be unethical or bad or even unjustificated. Now the answer to my original question: Yes. Of course. It's just another wired way the original sin takes it's curse (sorry for the missing 'o' english is not my first language). I enjoy this thread, greetings Matthias |
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