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| ccmcacollister 8/28/2004 23:29:34 [ report this post ] |
 Subject: Strongest non-WC players?Message: Who do you see as the strongest player(S) that never won a World Championship ? I feel like there are so many very great players that we tend to forget about. I'd like to discuss them if possible, or at least see your list. And I leave to you to interpret whether you mean strongest ever or strongest of their time in history. Personally I consider these as some people who Were WC's though the formal playoffs were not yet in place: Staunton, Steinitz, Anderssen, Morphy; so no need to include them unless you want to. |
| ccmcacollister 8/28/2004 23:55:23 [ report this post ] | Some I think of .... Message: These players are commonly mentioned in this regard; Keres, Fine, Kashdan, Reshevsky and all seem good to me. Especially the first and last. Most are not in particular order, here's some of mine(probably spelled badly) : 1.David Bronstein (tied a WC match after all) 2. Harry Nelson Pillsbury 3. Paul Keres 4.? Salo Flohr Gata Kamsky Jan Timman Svetzovar Gligorich Lajos Portisch Larry Evans Pal Benko, Bent Larsen, Kavalek, Frank Marshall, Polugaevsky, Taimanov, Tarrasch, Rubinstein, Tchigoran, Charrusek, Vehlimirovic Mecking, Huebner, Ljubojevic, Stein, Najdorf , Blackburne, Buckle Richard Reti, Aron Nimzovich, Geza Maroczy, Saemisch |
| philaretus 8/29/2004 03:58:10 [ report this post ] | When this topic came up.... Message: .....a while back, I nominated Carl Schlechter, who would actually have won the World Championship if he had not sportingly played for a win in the last game of his match with Lasker --- not wanting to win the title on account of a single mistake by Lasker earlier on in the match. As a result, he lost the last game, the match was drawn, and Lasker retained his title. You can't imagine the rating-crazed, gamesmanship-prone Grandmasters of today behaving like that. |
| ccmcacollister 8/29/2004 06:29:19 [ report this post ] | Excellent ! Message: Definately agree with you philaretus! How could I have forgotten Schlechter ! !? As much as I don't wish to revisit my own thread so soon.... Carl_Schlecter is too important to let by without a mea culpa now. A favorite player and study of mine, who could really put up (and win) a fight! Despite that dreadful "Drawing Master" reputation. {And unfortunately a classic GM death, destitute and in the street....so I've read.} And how did I forget Victor_Korchnoi ?! If not in the top 10 of all time, surely in the top 20 !? |
| marxisgod21 9/12/2004 13:47:07 [ report this post ] | Absolutely Korchnoi!! Message: Victor Korchnoi is, in my opinion, certainly the strongest player who was never world champion. In fact, the reason Korchnoi probably never was WC is because the Soviet governement threatened to kill Korchnoi's family (Korchnoi was a defector but his wife and kids were still living in Russia) if he attempted to beat any of the Soviet champions. In addition, the fact that Korchnoi is still able to play and beat a large numbers of today's young guns is a testament to his strength. As a sidenote, I have to disagree with ccmcacollister's pick of Henry Blackburne. While Blackburne was a good player, the champion he would be is coffee-house champion. While he uncorked brilliant combinations and mating attacks against weaker players, he never could compete with the best of his times. |
| cairo 9/12/2004 14:37:28 [ report this post ] | My list Message: 1. Viktor Korchnoi 2. Poul Keres 3. Akiba Rubenstein 4. Johann Zukertort 5. Sultan Khan 6. Richard Reti 7. Aaron Nimzowitsch 8. Carl Schlecter 9. Poul Morphy 10. Bent Larsen Best wishes Cairo |
| fmgaijin 9/13/2004 01:00:52 [ report this post ] | My 2 Yen's Worth Message: I'll agree with those who've nominated the following (no exact order, but my top 4 are better than the rest IMHO because they maintained that level over a long stretch of play): Bronstein Keres Pillsbury Korchnoi Rubenstein Schlecter (but did he need to win by 2 to win the match a la Bobby's Rules?) Nimzovitch Zukertort (fell apart leading Steinitz) Tarrasch and then for fun add the man who often beat Bobby: Geller |
| bonsai 9/13/2004 03:47:39 [ report this post ] | Message: Nobody seems to have mentioned Anand, yet... Currently one might be able to claim that he's the strongest player and given that chess today is rather high quality, that probably means something. |
| ccmcacollister 9/13/2004 04:20:36 [ report this post ] | I thought that .... Message: Anand had won one of the 3 or 4 WC's out there already, bonzai. Besides the fmgaijin + ccmcacollister "Nice Guy World Chess Championships" which were won by Anand and Drexel, respectively ?! You mean they were pulling my leg? Hmmm I do like that Geller idea fmgaijin, but must say you suprised me with no Portisch ! Interesting selections tho! And cairo too, I thought your list Quite interesting! As the whole Question has been to me. I'm really rather shocked no one has backed up Timman(talk about long term!! 2600+ forever, and up to #2 or 3 in the world at times. Or the "Western world" was it!?) And Gligorich, with all those magnificent opening ideas. I don't think there even Is a Gligo Var, is there? I like some ideas for BL Ruy much. I'm wondering if maybe I should of mentioned Gheorghiu also. Good quite awhile, then really good, not as long. I wonder what some of these players, like him, are doing today? Those who still live, of course. |
| soikins 9/13/2004 04:27:38 [ report this post ] | Anand Message: can still become the world champion, or some might even say that he has been the World Champion. I also would like to point out Leonid Stein (thought, ccmcacollister already mentioned him in his long list) -- a player we know so less about. He was extremely strong tournament player who never got his shot at the title. Not much has been written about him, therefore he doesn't appear in these kind of lists too often. I heard Kasparov has written a big chapter on Stein for "Predecessors" 4h volume, I hope that will bring the well deserved recognition to this great player. |
| brobishkin 9/13/2004 07:51:31 [ report this post ] | A few others... Message: Not that these added additions where the greatest... They are worthy of being noted with the others mentioned here... Tigran Petrosain, Alexander Kotov, and Samual Reshevsky... Bro... |
| fmgaijin 9/13/2004 08:15:40 [ report this post ] | Anand and Petrosian . . . Message: WERE World Champs--that's why I omitted Vishy, BTW, since as you know I have the highest regard for him. I almost put Portisch on the end of my list but decided on Geller instead. |
| qistnix 9/14/2004 11:07:54 [ report this post ] | What about: Message: Evgeny Sveshnikov and Lev Polugaevsky .. |
| basti1981 9/14/2004 11:41:28 [ report this post ] | hum, difficult question Message: good list so far, Bogljubow might be an addition. There were/are so many great players out there who never made it, just take a look at Topalov. |
| chessblind 9/16/2004 08:52:32 [ report this post ] | He didn�t play much Message: but Ignatz Kolisch deserves to be on the list. |
| estonian 11/07/2004 12:56:19 [ report this post ] | Message: Paul Keres was the greatest! |
| wulebgr 11/07/2004 13:12:45 [ report this post ] | and we must updates these lists Message: to include Peter Leko. He didn't win, but he sure came close! |
| aqeel 11/10/2004 21:33:54 [ report this post ] | Indeed Message: Its Paul Keres & aqeel :-) |
| worldmaster 11/15/2004 07:02:23 [ report this post ] | You all seem Message: to have forgotten about me. I am Worldmaster, ha,ha ;-). |
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