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loreta

11/02/2005
03:24:00
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Subject: Alapin gambit in Ruy Lopez

Message:
In the different thread (see -> gameknot.com spontaneously rised a discussion about Alapin gambit in Ruy Lopez. I suggested to move discussion about it to separate thread.
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There are basic ideas as they appeared:
[loreta 11/01/2005:
You wrote: " have played on GK a gambit line in this very variation though: a (temporary) sacrifice of a B on g4 to open up the h-file against the White K"
Do you mean Alapin variation? One of my last games on GK is by using that line (as White): 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5. 0-0 Bg4 6. h3 h5!]
[loreta 11/01/2005:
That is my last finished game against therealjimfriar
No access to it, already :-) But it isn't very interestng as went 20+ moves in known areas and only then I did my first move to side - anyway, after few moves we agreed a draw... Anyway, if you want to see it, I'll try to extract its text [I've it in Lithuanian notation, so I could transfer it to English one]]
[ionadowman 11/01/2005:
I played this line in April I think. I won in 17 moves, but it was by no means as one-sided as that sounds! It got very complicated, both sides tried to attack on the K-side of the board, and the position after white's 17th I thought was lost for Black! But then I found the winning move. Actually I had foreseen the position, and was looking for alternatives when the killer move occurred to me. Quite an exciting brevity:
[myntzky v ionadowman] 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5.O-O Bg4 6.d3 h5
7.h3 Bd6?! 8.hxg4 hxg4 9.Ng5 Nh6 10.Nxf7 Kxf7 11.g3 g5 12.Be3 Qf6 13.f3 Kg7 14.Nd2 Qe6 15.f4? [I began fancying my chances after this...] 15...exf4 16.gxf4 Nf5! 17.Qxg4 [You can see why at first glance I thought this was good for White!] 17...Qh6! 0-1]
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[Private message of loreta:
I wandered why you marked as ?! the move 7.... Bd6?!
After 8. hxg4 it seems both sides has their chances...
But seems more prospects could offer 8. Re1 (but there I neeed for more analysis)
]
[Private message from ionadowman:
� Your suggestion of 8.Re1 (before exchanges on g4?) or 9.Re1 (after exchanges) seems worth a look. One of the examples I have (S. Georges vs. P Blatny) went 8.Nbd2 Nh6 9.Re1... without exchanges on g4. In fact myntzky, by exchanging at once at g4, really put the whole line to the test. I think he was right to do so. But that is something we can take up in the new thread...
Cheers, Ion]

loreta

11/02/2005
03:28:23
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Exact message of loreta

Message:
[I did an intensive annotation of Alapin gambit -- during game and a bit after it] - but all of it is in Lthuanian and deals more with known areas and critical moves, - as they went in my game.
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About your game - I'm not sure about ?! for 7. ... Bd6?! [I didn't look deeply into this line...] as after 8. hg both sides has their chances... Maybe (maybe?) more prospects White has after 8. Re1 - But I need more analysis on this...
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In my game Black did 7. ... Qf6 - that is the main variation of gambit.]

ionadowman

11/02/2005
10:54:14
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Main line, Alapin Ruy Lopez

Message:
My original intection had in fact been to play 7...Qf6, until I discovered the Blatny games that began with 7...Bd6. No one else (in my available resources) seems to have played it. 8.hxg4 hxg4 9.Ng5 seems to me to put the onus on Black to prove his conception sound. On the other hand, Blatny's opponents invariably played 8.Nbd2, to which Black responded variously: 8...Nh6, 8...Qe7, 8...Qf6. However, the resulting games were sufficiently interesting

loreta

11/03/2005
22:32:06
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Week-end task

Message:
I'll prepare my game in this variation during this week-end...

ionadowman

11/04/2005
00:52:29
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Message:
Thanks. I might also have another look at the GK database in this line. I observe that my game against myntzky is there. I haven't had the chance to repeat the Alapin: my opponents seem to play Scotch or Goring Gambits at me if they open 1.e4 at all. Mind you, the Scotch is one of my own main GK lines (along with a long-time favorite: Belgrade Gambit...). Cheers-

loreta

11/05/2005
23:54:34
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My game

Message:
[loreta � therealjimfriar]
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. 0-0 Bg4 [the critical move by Fisher but more popular is the move of Gligoric 5. � f6 � cyrano played it against me, too]
6. h3 h5!? 7. d3 Vf6 [the main line; alternatives are 7�. Bd6 and 7. � Bc5!?]
8. Nbd2 Ne7 [again, the main line; alternatives are same 8�. Bd6 and 8. � Bc5!?]
9. Re1 [another good plan is associated with 9. Nc4!?]
9. � Ng6 10. d4!? Bd6 [from Fisher's time; at current moment more popular move is 10. � Nf4!?]
11. hxg4 hxg4 12. Nh2 Rxh2 13. Qxg4 Qh4! [=, P.Keres!]
14. Qxh4 Rxh4 15. Nf3 Rh5 [alternatives 14. .. Rh7; 14. � Rh8]
16. dxe5 [16. c3; 16. Re3]
16. � Nxe5 17. Nxe5 Bxe5 18. c3 g5! [18. � 0-0-0]
19. g3 0-0-0 20. Be3 Rdh8 21. Kg2 g4! 22. Rh1 Kd7! [22. � Rxh1]
23. Rxh5 Rxh5 24. Rd1+ [my first own move! Maybe, more convenient is 24. Rh1 Rxh1 25.
Kxh1 (=) � has anybody any game examples in this line?]
24. .. Bd6 25. Bf4 Ke6 26. Rd2 b5!? 27. f3 gxf3+ 28. Kxf3 Rh1 29. Re2 c5 30. Rd2, a draw, � - �

loreta

11/06/2005
00:00:40
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Sorry

Message:
Instead of 7. d3 Vf6 has to be 7. d3 Qf6 (uh, a translation mistake between notations)

ccmcacollister

11/06/2005
01:33:31
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Mistake

Message:
A corr Chess Expert, David White sent me a neat find one time, of an actual error published in Fischer's 60 memorable games, which involved either this line or the Exchange Var. But am pretty sure it is this one. And the line given in 60 was a bust. Will have to try looking thru my old "Metro Chess" magazines of the 1980's and see if I can come up with it. Or perhaps his find is well known by now?!

ionadowman

11/06/2005
01:53:20
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loreta...

Message:
I think I've seen the V used for Q before, a very long time ago. Is 'Bures' a Lithuanian name?
Cheers, Ion

loreta

11/06/2005
01:57:48
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Maybe that line?

Message:
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Bxc6 dxc6 5. 0-0 Bg4 6. h3 h5!? 7. d3 Qf6 8. Nbd2 Ne7 9. Re1 Ng6 10. d4!? Nf4!? 11. hg hg 12. Nh2? [12. g3!?] 12. ... Nxg2!! 13. Kxg2 Rxh2+! 14. Kxh2 Qxf2+ 15. Kg1 g3! - there a few analogius games in this variation...

loreta

11/13/2005
04:03:45
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More...

Message:
Has anybody else played Alapin gambit?

ionadowman

11/14/2005
01:37:42
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Plenty...

Message:
I've checked out the GK database for Alapin's Gambit. There is quite a number!
The 7...d6 line that I played has 11 examples. It seems that 8.Be3 has been a successful line, with 100% success (3 games). The gambit's acceptance (8.hxg4 hxg4) in this line has achieved 1 win out of 4. All 4 games featured different 9th moves. Interestingly the 3 Black wins were fairly contemporaneous, about March/April this year, the White win was about a year or two ago. By the way, I think myntzky's move 9.Nxf7 was pretty good... maybe the best?!
Cheers,
Ion

loreta

11/24/2005
22:40:38
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Sorry

Message:
I was too busy to keep that thread alive...

loreta

12/07/2005
22:05:21
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test

Message:
test

ionadowman

12/08/2005
10:58:58
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Nobody...

Message:
...seems to be interested...

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