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| From | Message | corentin
play-chess-online.com chess
4/26/2006
17:22:02
play online chess |  Subject: KING'S GAMBIT
Message:
What is the best move, in the king's gambit declined, after
1 e4 e5,
2 f4 Q h4?
| mean_guy183
play-chess-online.com chess
4/26/2006
17:52:29
play online chess | For which side?
Message:
Best move for white would be 3. g3; best move for black would be 3. Kf2
| wschmidt
play-chess-online.com chess
4/26/2006
20:00:38
play online chess | Does this relate to an ongoing game?
Message:
If so, the question and the reply are not appropriate. corentin, your games are hidden, so you need to clarify for folks whether or not you're talking theoretically or about a current game. ws
| far1ey
play-chess-online.com chess
4/27/2006
00:46:30
play online chess | Meh
Message:
You should allways accept the Kings Gambit and follow up with the modern defence. black usually gets a far better position and that was the reason why I stopped using the Gambit.
| ionadowman
play-chess-online.com chess
4/27/2006
01:10:32
play online chess | mean_guy183's suggestion 3.g3...
Message:
...stops Black's attack cold. Black needs to be a bit more circumspect. There is nothing wrong with 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Qh4+, (a line in the Bishop's Gambit), or 3.Nc3 Qf4+ (the Keres Gambit), both of which leaves White's K stuck in the centre. White gets compensation for this, especially in the former line, in the shape of quick and easy development of his pieces, but Black is in the game. 3.d4 Qh4+ even seems to put Black on top.
***
OK 3.Nf3 stops ...Qh4+. Never mind. If you like to attack, you might consider 3...g5, or its related lines (I quite like Fischer's ...d6 first, with ...g5 to follow). The move protects the advanced pawn, but also opens the possibility of a pawn storm once White's attack has been seen off.
***
Bear in mind that White is not playing the King's Gambit with any pacific intent. The gambit is designed to gain a lead in piece development so as to enable White to whip an attack. Black's policy seems to be aggressive defence, with a counterattack to come. So the spirit behind your 2...Qh4+ is OK - but the execution is a bit premature.
| bittersweet_ballad
play-chess-online.com chess
4/27/2006
04:58:16
play online chess | Muzio gambit
Message:
As white, I find this line very promissing:
e4 e5, f4 exf4, Nf3 g5, Bc4 g4, o-o gxf3, Qxf3
| misato
play-chess-online.com chess
4/27/2006
07:22:11
play online chess | Corentin, just have a look ...
Message:
... at the GK database:
3. g3 is the one and only white answer to 1. e4 e5 2. f4 Qh4+, with a good percentage for White.
As I am a King�s Gambit fan, I feel free to publish an exciting game (for me) where the GK database was of good use in another unusual line:
1. e4 e5
2. f4 exf4
3. Nf3 g5
4. Bc4 Qe7 (58% for White)
I never saw this move before, on first glance it looks unhealthy, but what to do?
The normal answer 5. 0-0 isn�t bad, but GK database gave me the following idea:
5. d4 (80%) Qxe4+ (100% !!!)
6. Kf2 Qf5 (Re1 is the threat)
The percentages were not the main deciders, but they helped. More important was that those high-numbered lines and my style of play were fitting together perfectly!
I decided for the continuation 7. Nc3 because I hoped for 7. - Nf6 8. Ne5 Bg7 9. Bxf7+. This was my opponent�s answer (playing Black) in the only game with this line, but he didn�t do me this favour:
7. Nc3 d6
Maybe the rook should better stay and control the h-file, I considered 8. h4 as well. White�s problem is the active and threatening black Queen, and this threat will increase as soon as she gets any support from home.
8. Re1+ Be7
9. Bd3 Qa5
The mentioned problem now has been solved, but I was really afraid of 9. - Qg4.
A German proverb says that those who say "A" should say "B" as well, so I gave pawn #3 in order to chase the black Queen around and bring my pieces in better positions:
10. b4 Qxb4
11. Nd5 Qa5
12. c4 c6
Black noticed that there were some lines ending with a captured black Queen, so it was a good idea to care for an escape.
13. Bd2 Qd8
14. Nxe7 Nxe7
15. Nxg5 Qb6
16. Bc3 Nd7
17. Rb1 Qd8
Black�s 9th Queen move, now I was really feeling confident.
18. Qh5 Rf8
This position contains other choices than 19. Ne6, but in my eyes the next four moves were forced (conditional moves).
This was a tournament game versus the top player, so I didn�t want to take any more risk and simplified the game (19. Ne4 threatening mate on d6/f6 or something with a sacrifice on e7 were in my mind as well, but too complicated):
19. Ne6 Nf6
20. Nxd8 Nxh5
21. Nxb7 Kd7
22. Nxd6 Kxd6
The next conditional sequence:
23. Bb4+ Kc7
24. Rxe7+ Bd7
25. Ba5+ Kc8
26. Bf5 Nf6 (26. - Bxf5 27. Rc7+ Kd8 28. Rxa7+)
Now Black has no sufficient move with any of his pieces, I could have waited until he runs out of pawn moves or open additional files for my b1-rook.
My decision was to open the files because I could use conditionals again:
27. d5 cxd5 (27. - c5 28. Rb5)
28. cxd5 Rb8 (each piece move loses ...)
29. Rxb8+ Kxb8
30. Bxd7 Nxd5
31. Re8+ Rxe8
32. Bxe8 (the simpler the better)
and Black resigned some moves later.
Of course, those percentages don�t tell all the truth about good or bad moves. Don�t go blindly in any line just because of the percentage value, check before WHY this line is a good one (or if the games were just decided by blunders later on) and if this line meets your style of play.
| ionadowman
play-chess-online.com chess
4/27/2006
13:58:55
play online chess | Nice game!
Message:
... a good illustration of what White aims for in a King's Gambit, and what Black has to avoid. Nine queen moves out of the first seventeen! Black never looked like surviving after that.
###
corentin's idea of 2...Qh4+ leads to 2 Q moves out of the first 3, which isn't so bad, but it ain't good. Sure White has made only P moves, but that's no hardship in the circumstances as he gains a sizeable chunk of prime real estate in the centre of the board, over which a bishop on g2 will have a fine, panoramic view. White has a useful head start in developing a powerful K-side pawn storm into the bargain. 'Nuff zed.
###
Here is the opening moves of a King's Gambit I played 30 years ago. My opponent played Fischer's line...
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 d6 [...d5, ...g5, ...h6 are all good. No doubt there are others] 4.Bc4 h6 5.O-O g5 6.d4 Bg7 7.c3 Nc6 8.Qb3 Qe7 9.h4!? g4 10.Bxf4 gxf3 11.Rxf3 Nf6 12.Nd2 O-O 13.Raf1 Na5 ... after which I never seemed able to get much attack rolling. Fortunately, a slip by Black allowed me to exchange 2 rooks for queen and bishop and enter a drawn Q vs 2R ending.
The point is, despite White's easy development and aggressive intentions, Black managed without trouble to get his pieces out and his king into a pretty solid defensive position. From move 10 on I was playing catch-up, a piece to the bad.
Cheers,
Ion
| corentin
play-chess-online.com chess
4/27/2006
15:23:15
play online chess | king's gambit
Message:
I probably did not phrase it correctly. My question is:
What is the best continuation for white after
1 e4 e5
2 f4 Qh4
3 g3 is obviously automatic. After 3...Qf6, what next?
If I play 4 Nf3, then 4...ef4, with the threat of 5...fg4, and there is no more king side to speak of.
The only hope would be to castle long.
Advice?
I was surprise by 2 Qh4, as I had never seen it before.
| ionadowman
play-chess-online.com chess
4/28/2006
04:16:57
play online chess | Oops...actually your question was clear...
Message:
...we just inferred that you were asking from Black's point of view for some reason.
First of all, what did you play in response?
A couple of ideas spring to mind after 1e4 e5 2.f4 Qh4 3.g3 Qf6 ...
***
4.d3 giving added protection to f4. If 4...exf4 5.gxf4 is an obvious response. 5...Qh4+ 6.Ke2 d6 7.Nf3 Bg4 8.Bg2 doesn't look too bad for White. You could instead contemplate gambiting the b-pawn by 4...exf4 5.Bxf4 Qxb2 6.Nd2 and Black's Q is looking pretty lonesome!
***
4.fxe5 looks pretty good once you get past the "ick" factor. 4.fxe5 Qxe5 5.d3 looks safe, you've taken a decent bite of the centre (mmm), and castling K-side may still be contemplated. To 5...Bc5, I'd probably respond 6.Nf3. At some point you'll want to get in d4 so that you can castle, but it all looks good to me.
***
4.Nf3 if you feel like trying to bamboozle your opponent seems to lead to lines similar to the King's Own Gambit a.k.a. the Tumbleweed. This goes 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Kf2!? - one of the craziest openings I know of. In it, White's K-side vanishes, but he does get fairly active piece play, and Black does risk becoming overcommitted.
So, back to 4.Nf3 exf4 5.gxf4 Qxf4 6.d3 seems OK, but I quite like This: 4.Nf3 exf4 5.d4 [or d3] fxg3 6.hxg3 intending 7.Bf4 White's K-side pawns don't look pretty, but dig those open files!
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