| From | Message |
Posted by usethepawn
play-chess-online.com
5/05/2008
01:46:46
play online chess |  Subject: Interesting.
Message:
Playing OTB.
Opening comes as 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 at this point white accidentally touches his king, forcing Ke2 giving black a mate on e4.
Quite shattering if you ask me!
|
Posted by marinvukusic
play-chess-online.com
5/05/2008
03:34:02
play online chess | ...
Message:
That is pretty stupid.
Accidental brush with the back of the hand happens often, is always ignored and can't be considered "touching".
If White disturbs the pieces he can just say "J'adoube" and rectify that with no penalty.
If White grabbed the King (for some incomprehensible reason), "J'adoube" still saves the day (if said immediately).
|
Posted by ccmcacollister
play-chess-online.com
5/05/2008
06:36:29
play online chess | Both players won
Message:
What greater cost... to lose the game, or lose one's honor~?
|
Posted by marinvukusic
play-chess-online.com
5/05/2008
07:14:54
play online chess | ?
Message:
What are you talking about? White accidentally touched his King.
I say no, the game should have proceeded normally. Of course you might be happy to take a point like that but I am sure majority of people would rather play it out (at least people I am communicating with).
A lot of people like to adjust pieces before their first move (and forget to say"J'adoube"). Get ready to pounce on them? Make them play with the h pawn? I say no, be a normal person and let it be.
|
Posted by ccmcacollister
play-chess-online.com
5/05/2008
08:13:33
play online chess | !
Message:
Only WT knows if he accidentally touched his King or otherwise. But in any case he felt it more important to create not even the possible appearance of impropriety, even if he knew it to be an accident. The moreso since he moved it without his opponent having to remind him or make an actual claim ...from the info available.
Of course, grabbing your King in hand without saying J'adoube Before Touching it, is simply cheating to try to say it afterward. I once touched a piece that dropped a N as my opponent walked out of the room, but dutifully moved the erring Knight. Having then to sit and watch the losing position more than a 1/2 hour till he returned. But he did return to win his piece, but lose on time.
As for his opponent, get serious ... any tournament player would take such a point. And if they did Not then they would be being dishonorable to every other player in the event since that point would change future pairings and thus the entire outcome ... if the game ended in other than the win BL has coming.
|
Posted by marinvukusic
play-chess-online.com
5/05/2008
09:01:11
play online chess | ...
Message:
Sure everyone would give mate after 3.Ke2?? - and why not? When the move is played and the clock pressed there is no mercy (it would be against the rules and the spirit of the game).
My point is that White probably didn't know the J'adoube rule, and therefore essentially gave up a point (which can also be interpreted as a nice "legal" way to throw the game).
Yes it is proper to say "J'adoube" before you touch the piece but in practice people sometimes reflexively adjust pieces on the board and say it when the hand is already on the piece (or don't say it at all, but this is rare among adults). This always happens immediately after that piece has been moved and I let it go every time (people are not robots).
If someone did it after some thinking (and forgot to say "J'adoube") then I would insist that the touched piece must be moved.
I personally would not react if White said J'adoube and played something normal -the case is so extreme that it is obvious White made a simple mistake when touching the King (if he seriously wanted to move it then he is so bad that I would just cream him in 15 moves and that is that).
But this is a matter of my personal ethics (that matters to me more that one easy undeserved victory). Besides I would still try to win the game normally.
|
Posted by wschmidt
play-chess-online.com
5/05/2008
15:53:14
play online chess | I'd like a little more clarification
Message:
from usethepawn about what "accidentally" meant in his opening message. I completely agree with marinvukosivic that in typical tournament play accidently brushing one piece while reaching for another doesn't trigger the touch-move rule. I don't agree, however, that saying "j'doube" after purposely grabbing a piece, gets one off the hook. In my opinion, intentionality is the key.
I lost a Tuesday night tournament game recently in situation as close to the edge of this intentionality question as I've ever been. I had a winning initiative as White and Black played the only move that could |